Forum Messages

Diarmuid O'ColmainJun 2 2011, 9:11pmHear ye, hear ye!

the greatest event of the summer is primed to take place on Wednesday 29th of June. It is the wornderful Seefingan race, longer and better than most other races. It is the 10th of the 13 Wed night races so getting close to the end of the League. If you need to get your volunteering up to scratch -particularly your non-running volunteering (to claim your league end prize), now is your chance to volunteer.

Thanks to all who have volunteered already, and I especially need now

Laptop Operator
Marshals X 2
Course Marker
Course Demarker
First Aid person

The marshals, Markers, Demarkers could be combined roles, but at least 2 and up to 4 people are needed. The marshals and demarker need to be non-runners - otherwise clearing the mountain will go on too late.

More information about the route etc. will be posted soon.
Tracie RyanJun 8 2011, 1:26pmHi Diarmuid,
I would like to volunteer for this event. Sign me up for anything. Thanks Tracie
Diarmuid O'ColmainJun 15 2011, 11:18amThanks Tracie

It would be great if you could help Ken with the Registration, and if you could help with the Finish also, assuming you will not be running?

chloe galleyJun 15 2011, 4:49pmHi Diarmuid,
I'd like to volunteer (running, if possible) for this race. I'm not yet on MyIMRA (if you can 'invite me', please do: chloegalley_at_hotmail_dot_com).
Vivian O'GormanJun 15 2011, 5:07pmHi Chloe just text me your mobile number and you will get
myimra invite - 087 4150398
Diarmuid O'ColmainJun 15 2011, 6:18pmThanks to all who have volunteered so far - I have a tentative plan that I will communicate with you soon - if Sam and Tracie have email addresses, could you please emeail them to me at docolmain at gmail dot com.

In the meantime, I critically need
1 laptop operator non-running
3 other non-running volunteers to help with marshalling and the finish.
1 person to take responsibility for parking with one or two further assistants - all can be running volunteers
1 First aider non-running volunteer

Remember you need to have completed your volunteering duties to earn your LL prize!

Now some notes for competitors
1. The Seefingan race is savage - it is the longest Leinster League race and has the second greatest climb. It is not for beginners. If you're not fit for it please do not attempt it. When I was RD on the Corrig race a few years ago we were waiting until nearly 10 o'clock for the tail enders to come in - the Seefingan race is basically the Corrig race extended by 5k.

2. If you are not familiar with the route, I would recommend recceing it in advance. It is so long, that on the night, space between competitors on the mountain will be unusually long, so there may not be someone to follow. The race will be marked but that is not a guarantee that nobody will take a wrong turn!

3. Having said all that, if you are fit and can find your way alright, it's a great, long run - hope you all enjoy it.

Donal TroddynJun 15 2011, 8:44pmDiarmuid, I will do Laptop Operator. I've done the training, but this will be my first time. Can I ask where exactly the start is?
aidan roeJun 15 2011, 11:18pmDiarmuid
your notes for competitor are great. I got a warm fuzzy feeling reading them. it IS a cracking race. You did forget to mention to make sure you have you shoes on tight.mine were sucked off on two separate occasions. Great! Looking forward to it.
Paul KevilleJun 16 2011, 1:39amI put myself down for running volunteer. I can help out at car parking or whatever task needs be. I know this race relies on car pooling due to lack of space. Be warned all runners no single occupancy cars were allowed last year. I've no doubt this year will be different
Grainne O'BrienJun 16 2011, 11:51amhi diarmuid, i can do non-running volunteer for this race either marshal or email is grainneobrien2002 at yahoo dot co dot uk thanks Gráinne
Diarmuid O'ColmainJun 16 2011, 12:40pmThanks Grainne, Paul and Donal

Will be in touch with other details over the weekend.

The start location is the same as for the old Corrig race. See map for the event last year at

Diarmuid O'ColmainJun 21 2011, 10:48amI am still short a First Aid person for Seefingan - Wed 29th next week. Could also use one or two more non-running helpers.

I am missing contact details for Tracie Ryan and Sam Scriven - if you would please send details to me at docolmain at gmail dot com; or 087 two 41330three
Henny BrandsmaJun 22 2011, 3:33pmHi Dermot.
If your still short off non running volunteers,i can give a hand on the night,maybe as marshall and give Vivian a hand someware on the route.
Regards Henny.
Brían O'MearaJun 22 2011, 5:05pmDiarmuid,

Injury means I can't run but I'd like to do a bit of walking. I can summit marshal if you still need a summit marshal.

Sam ScrivenJun 22 2011, 6:10pmDiarmuid,
I haven't been able to make many of the League races this year, and it doesn't look like I'll make Seefingan either. Can I withdraw as a volunteer? Sorry! If I can make it I'll come early and lend a hand.
Zuzana PavlikovaJun 22 2011, 10:24pmHi,
I have just signed up as a running volunteer, but if you are short of non-running volunteers, I don't mind switching.
diarmuid O'ColmainJun 22 2011, 11:39pmThat's ok Sam
Thanks Zuzana. Let's keep you as a running volunteer for now and if necessary I might ask you to switch. I'll be in contact early next week if not before.
Robert MoloneyJun 23 2011, 9:43amI would like to volunteer as First Aid Officer for event on 29th June next
Diarmuid O'ColmainJun 23 2011, 5:08pmHi Robert
thanks a million for volunteering! Please send your email address and phone number to me at docolmain at gmail dot com or 08 seven 241330three
Diarmuid O'ColmainJun 23 2011, 6:11pmHenny,
I think it would be useful if you could help Vivian mark from start to Seahon and Seahon down to finish. He wil give you a call.
Diarmuid O'ColmainJun 23 2011, 6:42pmOk now we have an almost full set of volunteers.

Only remaining positions needed are perhaps one or two volunteers to help Tommy Galvin and Paul Keville with car parking.

Oh! and I nearly forgot - 3 volunteers specifically to sort and file the numbers after the race would be great. I know it's not the most exciting task, but it will count towards your 2 volunteer occasions for the LL!

Diarmuid (RD)
Thomas O'SullivanJun 23 2011, 11:28pmHi Diarmuid,

I can volunteer as a non-runner, if I can get a lift from someone from in the Baggot St area. I specialise in menial tasks, so car parking and filing numbers is right for me!

Diarmuid O'ColmainJun 24 2011, 8:25amPlease see updated notes on Event Details for Seefingan.

May I also mention here that last year some people went wrong on the way down off Seahan to the finish. Please study the map, preferably bring a copy with you; and if you are just not familiar with the route, take your time and make sure you follow the markers. Bear in mind that for a race of this length it is not feasible to have markers at very frwquent intervals. All decision points will be well-marked, with continuity markers also where appropriate.

I hope I haven't made the race sound too discouraging! There will be undoubtedly a great sense of satisfaction on completing such a challenge. Seefingan is a spectacularly quiet summit, with great views over West Dublin.
Diarmuid O'ColmainJun 24 2011, 10:45amThanks Tom
can you please send me your email/ mobile number to docolmain at gmail dot com or 087 two41330three
Diarmuid O'ColmainJun 24 2011, 10:47amSorry Tom, my head is addled. I have your email, just need the phone no. please
aidan roeJun 24 2011, 1:29pm"Seefingan is a spectacularly quiet summit...." , its also spectaculatly wet as well. swimming togs + tennis rackets may be a good option. I can hardly wait:-)

Diarmuid I have float as well for wednesday. I'll be at start for 6.00pm.

diarmuid O'ColmainJun 24 2011, 11:12pmThanks Aidan
kevin englishJun 27 2011, 10:32amHi Diarmuid,
i plan on racing this,could help out markign the course before hand or anything else you think i might be of help.
email kevinenglish1 at
Diarmuid O'ColmainJun 27 2011, 12:45pmThanks Sonja, Kevin for volunteering,

Sonja, could you please let me have your email address please - docolmain at gmail dot com or 087 241330three.

Diarmuid (RD for Seefingan)
Sonja FuhrmannJun 27 2011, 11:35pmHi Diarmud
Sorry,missed your call. My email is sofuhrmannataoldotcom. I would be able to do anything during or after the race, e.g. sorting out race numbers after, marshalling e.g. I won't be able to be at the race before 7pm though. So helping with car parking or registration would be too tight. Talk to you in the morning!
Tom O'SullivanJun 28 2011, 10:13amHi, are any of the volunteers travelling from the centre of Dublin, and would give me a lift to the race? Thanks, Tom
Diarmuid O'ColmainJun 28 2011, 4:51pmFinal notes re Seefingan

Ahern's pub is partly obscured by a big new Paddy Power sign on the building that is attached to the roadfront side of the pub. It is easy to pass by without seeing the pub.

Early start will be at 7.00 if possible

Registration will start at latest 6.30 and finish at 7.15.

Diarmuid (RD)
Colm HowlinJun 28 2011, 9:59pmHi all,

Any volunteers want to carpool from Aherns Pub at 17:45?? Got room for 4 in my car or can I grab a lift with someone else?

Sean HassettJun 29 2011, 8:26amAnyone travelling from Dundrum or near another Luas stop this evening?
Ronan HickeyJun 29 2011, 8:30amHiya,

At great personal cost I'm offering to help bring someone's car-load up to the requisite number of runner :-) In other words I'm looking to blag a lift! If anyone is passing through town or near to a Dart station or a Red-line Luas stop?

(Contact details are on my IMRA profile)


Johan DehantschutterJun 29 2011, 11:27amI should be at Aherne's pub shortly after six this evening and can take another 3 people to the start or help filling someone else's car. My details (phone no and email) are in my IMRA profile. Later..
Eoin O'BrienJun 29 2011, 11:31am@ Sean Hassett: I was a bit late getting online. I can pick you up at Sandyford luas station if you are still looking for a lift. My car is now regisitered on the car pooling section.

Eoin O'BrienJun 29 2011, 11:34amOh and I'll be there at 17:45 not 00:00!
Aillil O'Reilly Jun 29 2011, 12:33pmCarpool

I currently have 5 spaces in my car going from the Law Library on Church Street at 17:45 and going past Sean Hueston Station and on out the M50. I have to drop the car off to a mate's house in Arklow afterwards so it's a one-way ticket!
kevin englishJun 29 2011, 1:05pmColm are you driving from Ahearns as id greatfully grab a lift of you.kevin.
Oliver VarholaJun 29 2011, 1:29pmCarpool available from Topaz Petrol station at Square Tallaght, 6:45PM
2 seats available. 086-0596637
Brendan LawlorJun 29 2011, 1:35pmLeaving Roundwood at 5.30pm for anyone travelling to race from southerly direction.

Won't be going to pub after. Text oh87 243279ate
Oliver VarholaJun 29 2011, 1:35pmupdate - carpool available from Topaz Petrol Station, Square Tallaght, 6:15pm, 2 seats
Aisling CorkeryJun 29 2011, 2:13pmMy carpool leaving time from UCD should read 17:30, I'm leaving from outside the sports centre so let me know if you need a lift.
Brendan LawlorJun 29 2011, 3:33pmRoundwood car now full
Colm HowlinJun 29 2011, 4:35pmKevin, yeah i'll be driving from Aherns. Will be there at 17:45 or so and will wait around to try fill the car up.

Colm HillJun 29 2011, 10:16pmA draw!??
What the hell?! What happened?!

Give me a race report from the top 2!

Must have been awesome
Roman GregusJun 29 2011, 11:26pmhi, i am just wondering how in event dificulty is for ascent 2 points, when 2 is for 200m-500m and this one was 550m. i think this deserves to be difficulty 8 when compared with other 7 points races in LL.
Roman GregusJun 29 2011, 11:39pmjust forgot to thank all for a great race. best i tried so far. thanks.
Brendan LawlorJun 30 2011, 8:32amGreat race last night - best of the Leinster League and tougher than some championship races. Well done Diarmuid and all volunteers - not easy conditions for helping with the flying savage midges looking for their pound of flesh. Thanks to all
Diarmuid O'ColmainJun 30 2011, 9:15amRoman you are absolutely right - since the climb was 550m, the event difficulty should have been coded 2,3,3 total 8. I have corrected this in the description so it should be right next year.

At the same time I'm sure you read the event description!! Which read

"This is a long, very hard route on open mountain (12 km, approx 550m climbing). the longest race in the Leinster League. It is not a race for beginners; please don't attempt it unless you are confident of your fitness to complete a race with this profile. The winning time is expected to be around 60 mins, with people finishing anything up to 2 hours or more after they start."

Not much ambiguity there!
Eva FairmanerJun 30 2011, 10:49amEven though I had to have a shower before getting into bed at near midnight (I was made stay in the pub!) I think a big well done to Diarmuid and his team for a highly organised race last night. I am sure it was not pleasant standing as marshalls in the mist, rain and cold and yet there was helpful encouragement and good humour from the brave souls. The course was well marked and everything appeared to run like clockwork so thankyou to all.
aidan roeJun 30 2011, 12:02pmI may be mistaken but i only remember running as far as the post last year. I don't remember going to the trig pillar. this doesn't mean I didn't, i just dont remember.
Mick HanneyJun 30 2011, 12:08pmAidan you are right, we didn't go to the cairn last year. I compared the route ran vs last year and this year was marginally longer as a result. Mind you, a race like Seefinngan does play tricks on the mind. Damn, another hill to run.
aidan roeJun 30 2011, 12:09pmgreat race by the way. really enjoyed it. downhill of seefingan is class. thanks to all the marshals, volunteer's and RD.
Diarmuid your race description at start of race was even better than mine the week b4 :-).
Warren SwordsJun 30 2011, 12:59pmGreat race, thanks to organisers and volunteers.
Roman GregusJun 30 2011, 1:31pmHi Diarmuid,

thanks for reply. But then, when you amended event difficulty to 8, shouldnt be accordingly influenced race points as well ? as if i correctly understand the point system, race points are base points plus premium for race difficulty, which was now increased.

and of course I read the descriptions u left on web to make us aware of what is waiting for us. thanks for it. it fulfilled all my expectations. really enjoyed the race.

Eoin KeithJun 30 2011, 1:34pmRoman, The race points are calculated from the length and height gain figures directly, rather than from the 1-3 values in the difficulty ratings.
Roman GregusJun 30 2011, 2:05pmall clear now. thanks.
diarmuid O'ColmainJun 30 2011, 2:49pmSo mow I understand what you were getting at when you raised this matter Roman!

Separate Matter - a Lady left a lovely yellow light jacket behind her at the finish. please contact me to reclaim 087 2413303
Mick HanneyJun 30 2011, 3:05pmThanks Diarmuid et al. Particularly to the summit marshalls for their encouragement on what can be a lonely station.

It would be great to see a race variation on this (perhaps for LC) where you continue onto Kippure and Sally gap. A copy of leg 1 of the Stone Cross to Lug relay I suppose, but if more people saw what it was like, it might be an appetiser to attract more entries to the relay. With sensible car pooling a point to point race would be possible and it would be a nice variation from our usual looped or out and back races.

diarmuid O'ColmainJun 30 2011, 5:13pmAh Mick, have a heart! You must be even more of a masochist than the rest of us. Seefingan to Kippure!! It would be horrible for running; absolutely no redeeming features at all. It's ok as a walking challenge but running.....

And as for Kippure to Sally Gap; unless I have missed some nice little path that you are keeping secret, it's totally leg-breaking terrain, unless of course you go the (very) long way around by the service road. I have to admit it is along time since I went this way (once was enough!) maybe my memory is more negative than reality.

Or maybe I am just a wimp - interesting to see what others think.
Colm HillJun 30 2011, 5:22pmAh Diarmuid, come on now, its not that rough ;)
Roman GregusJun 30 2011, 5:24pm@diarmuid
haha not at all, the points came to my mind just afterwards, at the beginnig was just surprised is just 7, when talked with car crew on the way home yesterday.

u r right that having few point2point races in LL would be great, though logistics after the race could be problem. little shuttle bus or van???
on other hand it's fine that few routes are left only for bigger races, it makes them something special. u r looking forward it,or r bit scared of it.
it would loose this if it would be all parts of some common races. my opinion.

and if the terrain from seefingan to kippure is even boggier i would have to nail my shoes to my feet not loose them on the way as happened to me on wed :o)
Mick HanneyJun 30 2011, 6:09pmDiarmuid, you are getting soft :-). Its probably more an LC suggestion than LL as I said. The great thing about Seefinngan is it gives the LL campaigners an insight into a pseudo championship route. Well done again on a great coordination job last night.
Paul SmythJun 30 2011, 7:18pmActually Diarmuid, it's not that bad. I've run it a number of times out and back although only as far as the summit of Kippure. The Seefingen to Kippure section isn't actually that boggy although it is rougher than the Sehan to Seefingen section. Small paths along the county boundary make it a bit easier. The views are well worth it...
Paul SmythJun 30 2011, 7:21pmOh, and for the best experience follow the forest road from the start around to the edge of the forest where the original route went up. I much prefer that to the current route. It's a bit longer and steeper but well worth it.
Rene BorgJun 30 2011, 8:00pmTeam results are up.
Caitlín BentJul 1 2011, 11:38amThanks again for an excellently run race on Wednesday Diarmuid and all Marshals and helpers.
I feel I have to question the unusual decision to allow 2 people to run the race on the previous day and have their times officially entered in the results!! If this were to happen at the top level of runners I would imagine there would be a 'little bit of an uproar'. This creates a precedent and if the weather forecast was showing Tuesday to be a better day, runners might like to run on that day instead:)
I feel a decision like this should be discussed and passed at the AGM before it can be acted upon.
Diarmuid O'ColmainJul 1 2011, 12:34pmOn reflection, I am very much inclined to agree with you Caitlin on this matter. The thing is that it certainly is accepted (even encouraged) that people may take an early start, be that a 'mass' start, or an individually timed start in the period immediatley ahead of the main start. It seems also to have become accepted without complaint that people may start (a self-timed run) much earlier on, on the day of a race. (To be honest, I would not have been acutely conscious as to whether these earlier runs always took place on the day of the race or not, but I gather now that that is the case.)

From that position to running the course on the previous day could appear as a small further step in exceptional circumstnces. But I would be inclined to agree it is probably a step too far. As Race Director, I thought it rather unconventional but did not think too much about it, bearing in mind the accepted practice of other early starts as described in the paragraph above; so I accepted the times when they were reported to me.

For the future however, I would suggest that the matter of early starts of all kinds be reviewed by the committee and a clear decision taken on them.

On the matter of a furore being created if this practice had happened at the elite end of the field, of course you are right; but by the same token, any form of early start would cause the same furore among this group of runners.
Alan AylingJul 1 2011, 12:38pmI would have thought the only way anyone's result should be acceptable is to run with the proper scheduled mass start, or with the official early start (taking into account the very sensible 160% rule). Outside of this, people are of course welcome to go for a run or walk or whatever on their own, but to expect to be put into the results seems very unreasonable. Not only the burden on volunteer organisers and questionable ethics of better conditions, less traffic etc, but insurance and safety issues too.

Does this even need to go to an AGM?
Dermot MurphyJul 1 2011, 12:49pmTo explain the situation in full - a long standing member of IMRA requested from me about a month ago if they could complete this race before the day as the were unable to run it on the day. They also needed to record the race in order to complete the 7 races on the league. As this was a long standing member and their motivation was to complete the 7 races, I, as League Director, gave them permission to do this. I find it a bit disappointing that people would wish to deny this person the chance to complete their 7 races, but the decision stands. If people want to bring in a ruling on it for future races, by all mean do so.

Mick HanneyJul 1 2011, 1:03pmI think thats fair enough Dermot and most people would be supportive of that.

There is another exception which could arise and it is this. Races cannot proceed without key volunteer roles. A summit marshall, a first aider, laptop person etc. You could have a rare situation there a non elite but < 160% finisher has volunteered for a role but needs the race to close off a league. Whilst non-running volunteers are preferred, if the choice comes to postponing a race or letting that person run the race on the course an hour or so beforehand the RD, at their discretion, may chose to allow the exceptional early start. I don't think this is a matter that AGM needs discussion on.

Of course this wouldn't be necessary if people came forward in droves for non-running roles, but that typically is not the case.
Colm HillJul 1 2011, 1:17pmIs that not setting up a two tier system?
"Elites" have to race the races and go to extra races do non running volunteer?

If this was the case where a runner can run very early and then help out, is there anything stopping Niall, Seamus and myself from doing a Long Race (say Avonbeg or Stone Cross) on a day when the weather and ground conditions are perfect, submitting a fast time and then acting as a non running volunteer on the "race day"?

Kinda takes away from the whole "racing" aspect of IMRA.
Mick HanneyJul 1 2011, 1:27pmOf course as an RD I'd never let you away with it Colm. As 2nd in the Enduro points list that would make you top tier :-)
Eoin KeithJul 1 2011, 1:33pmMy 2 cents:

We shouldn't loose sight of the fact that we're running races here, not time trials. The only reason we allow early starts is to enable race helpers (Summit marshals, laptop operators etc) to finish earlier by allowing slower runners to finish earlier. This also allows us to get the results complete more quickly for the prizegiving. It is definitely not to competitively assist the early starters in any way. If anyone in the main block of runners (and I do mean anyone, not just the elites) is being disadvantaged then further rules modification could be put in place to ensure that this doesn't happen. The 160% rule was the first attempt at this. If that is insufficient we could simply adjust all early start times to be behind the last finisher of the main race. In fairness, I think that in general the system works, and the vast majority of early starters are to be thanked for assisting us to get the race completed more quickly.

I personally would not have allowed anyone to submit a time-trial result as part of the race results, no matter how long they have been with IMRA. A race is a race. It should be the same rules for everybody.
Colm HillJul 1 2011, 1:35pmYet if I was RD'ing another LL and made an entry condition of no one allowed to run with an Enduro Ranking below 1,200 there would be blue murder!!

I like where this is going Mick, this could have legs
Paul OGradyJul 1 2011, 2:50pmCongratulations Dermot on a brave and totally sporting decision

A decision like that only adds to the community and camaraderie that is IMRA

Paul OGradyJul 1 2011, 2:51pmCongratulations Dermot on a brave and totally sporting decision

A decision like that only adds to the community and camaraderie that is IMRA

Alan AylingJul 1 2011, 10:19pmI made my original comment without knowing - or really being interested in - the specifics.

Undoubtedly Dermot's decision was made in an understanding and sporting manner (such is Dermot's nature) and on that basis is commendable, but I would suggest the whole concept of people starting and finishing at times that suit themselves, and timing themselves, makes a mockery of mass-start racing. Further, making special provisions - however well meaning - for one runner in the same league where long-standing members of IMRA were denied entry to a race on rather dubious lateness grounds... well it all seems a bit hypocritical I'm afraid. (That statement is not meant to get at anyone, so please don't take offence, none is intended...).

Perhaps this does need to go to the AGM.
Dermot MurphyJul 2 2011, 8:56amAlan, they are two totally different situations. The one for Seafinfan was made about a month before the race - no pressure to make the decision. For the Howth race we were under severe pressure with parking - IMRA could have been in a lot of trouble if there were other users in the car park and we were very lucky there was not. We had to close the car park when we did - and it meant that some people (both new to IMRA and old) missed out which was unfortunate.
But I stand by both decisions and I don't see anything hypocritical in them - as a RD you need to make decisions, which are sometimes under pressure, and I don't think its fair to criticise any RD for having to make them.
Brendan LawlorJul 7 2011, 11:33amMy colleague Pat Reid pointed out to me that we should not have summited onto the Cairn on Seefingan as part of our race.This is an ancient burial tomb. We should either run around it or turn at the base of it.

Could the powers that be note for next year
Jason KehoeJul 7 2011, 12:38pmHi Brendan,

As summit marshal that night I have to take responsibility for making runners touch the trig point on top of the tomb. Having misplaced my map I was unsure if the turn around was at the pole or the cairn. I was fortunate to ask a senior member in the early starts who said they remembered running to the cairn the previous year so I made an executive decision based on this information.

I remember standing on the top and saying to myself "Why would anyone drag so many large rocks to the top of the mountain?". All my history lessons for the Junior Cert (intercert for you!) come flooding back now when you mentioned burial tomb!

I will make a pilgrimage of forgiveness later on in the month during a training run to Seefingan to appease the mountain gods on behalf of the IMRA members.

Knowing my luck I will be struck down by lightning...


Jeff FitzsimonsJul 7 2011, 12:49pmKnowing your recent form Jason you will be spared the lightening strike but will likely suffer a nasty gash to the knee.

Brendan LawlorJul 7 2011, 1:24pmStruck down by Charlie O'Connell more like! ;)
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