The continuing problem of single occupancy cars
| Author | Date | Message |
|---|---|---|
| Brendan Lawlor | May 10 2012, 9:55am | How do we cut down on the continuing problem of far too many single occupancy cars? (dozens of them again last night in Scalp) Do people have genuine reasons why they can't/ won't carpool? (need to get away early, coming from the wrong direction, leaving late from work) Is the carpool working properly? Should we promote 'carpool' meet up locations more? Should we promote carpark locations when single occupant cars can go and then jog to registration/ race start? Should we have a standard charge for 'managed' carparking (say €8) so those that do carpool reduce their cost and those that don't pay full whack? Discuss ..... |
| Nora Lalor | May 10 2012, 10:11am | Was there dispensation for runners other than helpers to bring their cars to start last night? at least 2 & I expect more cars arrived with runners all numbered up & ready to go. None of the other 250+ plus runners melted in the rain jogging up!! tho some of the volunteers nearly did waiting for lifts back to cars. |
| Mick Hanney | May 10 2012, 10:16am | Space is limited for parking next week so single occupancy cars will not be permitted. And anyone found to have parked on the cul de sac road to the race start will find themselves disqualified. Its important we stay onside with the locals so we cannot block local access etc. |
| Dermot Murphy | May 10 2012, 10:16am | No, all runners should have jogged up. Can all runners please note that this road is a public and quite narrow - we can't afford to be receiving complaints if parked cars are causing problems, which is why the instructions were there in the first place. Please make sure to follow the instructions to the letter in future. |
| Jeff Fitzsimons | May 10 2012, 10:23am | There are several reasons I would turn up in a car on my tod for a Wednesday night race, as follows. 1. I am unsure of the time I’ll be leaving due to work. It’s hard to offer/accept car pool if you’re not sure you’ll make it on time yourself. 2. I need to head off asap after the race. 3. I get to the pub and cruise the car park looking for lifts but nobody is around/everyone has prior arrangements. I think 1 & 2 are unavoidable realities of life and therefore IMRA or any other organisation should neither be expected to or try plan for them. We’re all individuals and make our own choices. However if I turn up in a single occupancy car and am turned away from parking then sobeit. That’s the bit that IMRA can control, have a parking policy and stick to it. If there are exceptions for particular races with ample parking then make that known prior to the race. In relation to 3 I think this can be a bit awkward for people unfamiliar with the IMRA way! Picture the scene; you’re at the boot of your car getting ready for a race, you’re already nervous about trying this mountain running lark. Then some aulfella asks you to get in his car, then a couple of youngfellas pull up and ask you if you want a lift to the race, then some dude with a beard & driving a van asks you if you want to jump in the back!!! It’s the stuff of nightmares I tell you. :) The point I’m trying to make is maybe the car pooling thing newer members understand, but not the mini car pool idea of going to the prize giving location and filling a car there. I don’t think it’s communicated as best it could. Maybe a note on each race details page highlighting this might help. |
| Angus Tyner | May 10 2012, 10:34am | I was on my own last night. No one else seems to come from Ashford as I usually offer spaces in carpool. I do team up with someone from Wicklow if they are traveling. I won't go well out of my way to carpool at designated pub such as would have been the case last night. I did take advantage of my independence last night and got home before 9pm to which my daughter was delighted! Certainly if there was designated carpool location on my side of races then I would try to use it if I thought I wasn't going to be stranded with little time left to make race :) Also I would use a more remote parking area and use distance to warmup/down |
| Jim Fitzharris | May 10 2012, 10:37am | Brenadan, Mick, et al, This problem will not go away unless the rules are ENFORCED. I and many othes have seen scores of single occupancy cars rool up and not a murmur from a marhsal or an RD. I have even done it myself when pushed ! Very rarely I might add. There will always be legitimate cases as Brendan outlined but even then, there are carpool locations. I take Jeff's points but can we say, hand on heart, that these circumstances have applied in very single case? Solutions? 1. Car parking fee (as we had last night) should act as a disincentive. Admittedly it was only €3 last night. Maybe €5 or more might focus the mind. Proceeds invariably go to charity anyway. 2. Jeff's point about REALLY publicising informal car pooling at the pub etc is a good one. This is an easy way to fill cars. And remember while a full car is ideal, even 2-3 per car greatly reduces the number of cars overall. 3. Where there is free parking, one or more marshals will have to be told to refuse access to single person cars, full stop, no excuses accepted. Enforcement means that you may also have to marshal nearby roads to stop a single ocupancy car sneaking into a corner and then walking into the race start ...... Chers, Jim. |
| Ronan Hickey | May 10 2012, 11:58am | Enforcing the rules is a good idea but it's tough to do. I've marshalled parking a few times, most recently at Three Rock. I have no problems sending cars back down to registration if they are single occupancy but a few cars came up who's drivers had offered lifts at Taylor's but no one wanted them. How do we know who is really trying and who is telling porkies? :-) It's down to the parking marshal to make a call, which opens up the possibilities of abuse and inconsistency. (And of course it doesn't solve the problem of those who accelerate until the parking marshal gets out of the way, yes it has happened! :-)) Part of me likes the idea of fining single-occupancy cars as it will generate revenue for IMRA but I think that will just dissolve into people thinking that they can either: 1) Car pool 2) Pay to drive in and the number of single-occupancy cars will sky-rocket, not drop. I think we would be better off setting up a small committee group to look at the calendar and pick out races where parking is an issue and then do as much as we can to seek out as many local farmers and landholders that we can return to again and again every year. Build up regular relationships with them. Similar to the field organised for last night, or the one for Prince Williams Seat. I know it's not easy and I know that the committee are probably already working on this but I think it's better to go down this route than the fine/refuse entry model. Plus as runners have ditched their numbers by the time they go back to their illegally parked cars it could be quite difficult to DQ them. Ronan |
| Warren Swords | May 10 2012, 2:16pm | Not sure if the problem can ever be completely solved. People finish work at different times and are not certain of getting out at a certain time. In those circumstance, they can’t organise a car pool as they could potentially be letting down three runners, nor agree to one. Perhaps where parking is an issue, carpooling could be counted as volunteer role? You do it x amount of times, and its counted as a non volunteer role. Where sign on is in a different location (such as Three Rock), have an extra volunteer specifically organising a car pooling desk. You sign in, collect your number, go to the carpooling desk. You’re are asked how many are in your car/need a lift etc. If empty, they must wait until x amount of runners sign in. If full, they get a coloured sticker or something. Only those with stickers are admitted. Could be a pain in the arse in reality. |
| Peter O'Farrell | May 10 2012, 3:09pm | Get a bike? Many of the races are very cyclable to from de city centre. Cycling reduces traffic and congestion, uses less petrol, saves money, helps the environment, acts as a warm-up, provides a great excuse if needs be and possibly eases the pressure on the creaking hospital health care system! For races further afield you could do worse than copy Gerry Lalor of CIMRA fame who was quite often on his own coming straight from work and He'd park up in a quiet place and cycle over to sign-on. |
| Derek Kellett | May 11 2012, 12:05am | I'm feeling like a bit of a pariah at the moment, having read the comments above. I arrived at the race yesterday having travelled left Roscommon at 4o'c yesterday, having apologised to a fellow poolee earlier in the day that I wouldn't be back in Ashbourne to car share. I assume he also arrived in an empty car. Am I no longer welcome? * Pooling is great if easy access is available to the pooling point * Pooling is great if you have fixed working hours so that fellow poolees are not inconvenienced * Cycling is great if you are within an hour or two of the meeting point or have 2 days to get there. Please a little generosity of spirit to those of us who do not fit in with the "norm". Yes there are issues, but shouting rules & regulations I feel is a little counter productive. |
| Paul Joyce | May 11 2012, 9:27am | The problem is, Derek, that showing "generosity of spirit" to one person, leads to others expecting the same spirit shown to them, which doesn't help in any way with the parking issue. IMRA races leave too big a car "footprint" in often sensitive and rural area's. There are hills that have been threatened with closure of access, specifically because of insensitive IMRA car parking, and the issue needs to be addressed collectively, however much that might inconvenience the individual. Peter's suggestion of biking is sensible, doubly so when you consider many could drive to a large parking area, and bike to registration from there. An organized bus has worked well before, and could be considered for those races further from Dublin. A farmer's field when available can work, although there's issues with cars getting stuck, etc. Most urgently, a greater acceptance of the issue as a problem, and use of the existing carpool facility (as Warren said, "volunteer duty" box ticked for those who offer?), will help alleviate the problem. Of course there will be exceptions, but the problem won't go away if too many people continue to consider their single-occupancy arrival as "exceptional". Any race director will tell you they'd prefer to concentrate on race issues, rather than wondering which stern-faced volunteer they will appoint as car-park marshall, and what repercussions and arguments that individual may have to deal with on the night. As it stands, enforcement is a necessary evil. (And if you're going to enforce, getting the most sour-faced, cranky-because-injured, volunteer to wear the hi-viz jacket, is the way to go. Just ask the Carrick RD). |
| Mick Hanney | May 11 2012, 11:15am | Crossing over with the Carrick event thread a bit, but addressing the concern here... For next week Torben will be stationed at the Chester Beatty pub in Ashford. If you don't recognise him we'll organise a hi vis top. Go to him and he'll organise for groups to fill cars for onward driving to Glenealy. At least this way the people who are getting out of work at unpredictable times etc don't have to make a commitment on the forum in advance. Up to a point at least as Torben needs to get to the venue to register himself! |
| Stuart Scott | May 11 2012, 11:26am | Well done Mick, I think that's the best (and only) solution. An autocratic, rules-based approach could create ill-feeling and there are definitely situations where it's not possible. Instead, we need to highlight the social benefit of carpooling - there's no better way to get to make new friends than to squeeze 5 into a car and drive into the countryside. A carpooling matchmaker will definitely help in that, maybe a new volunteer role! |
| Declan O'Dwyer | May 11 2012, 12:16pm | it might depend on the pubs attitude, but could registration for the Scalp not have happened at the Golden Ball, to encourage car pooling from there, and would the same not apply to the Chester Beatty next week. Much easier to organise people to stop and car pool if they have to register anyway. It might be in the interest of the pubs concerned if most runners have to go back to them to get their cars back. |
| Brendan Lawlor | May 11 2012, 12:21pm | Interesting discussion so far I agree that there will always be circumstances and situations where people find carpooling difficult but I also think that there is a group of people who just can't be bothered (many of them won't be reading this forum) and its this recidivist group who may respond better to the stick, than the carrot The numbers on this are stark though 240 in a race without carpooling = 240 cars 240 in a race with good car pooling (average 3 per car) = 80 cars Even 80 cars is a stretch for some of the events There will be a very grumpy gate marshal at Glasnamullan/ Djouce sending all single occupant cars to the Coach House in Roundwood on Wednesday week - recidivist single occupant carpool skeptics be warned! |
| Aidan Roe | May 11 2012, 2:31pm | The car-pooling marshal is a good idea and should be the norm for most races. its difficult to pick people up in car parks. Someone in one of the IMRA high viz vest can easily facilitate car pooling. theres quite a few of you whos car/van I wouldn't get into. @ Brendan. I would have thought that if someone is raising money for a charity/holiday that they would prefer more cars. |
| Brendan Lawlor | May 11 2012, 5:00pm | Aidan The people who generally lend us fields for parking do so as a goodwill gesture (certainly in my case, both families are friends of mine). The collection at the gate for a charity/cause (don't know where the 'holiday' thing is coming from) of their choosing is designed to a) make carpark users 'donate' something in return for this genorisity and b)reduce the number of cars as people can share the donation amount. If there are too many cars in the field, and its a wet night and the field gets chopped up, they won't give us (or me in my two cases) the use of the field next year- simple as that |
| Mick Hanney | May 14 2012, 12:19pm | Did we get an answer for this? Is the carpool function working? (I'm looking at the lack of carpool entries for Carrick for Wednesday and thinking it probably isn't). |
| Paul Joyce | May 14 2012, 11:15pm | The Carpool function appears to work, at least in that I just added my car. So either people are choosing not to use it, or don't know how to. Log into MyImra, go to Carrick Event details, scroll down to Carpool, click "Make your car available for this Event", and Bob's your uncle. If you have to drive down solo, please swing by Chester Beatties pub in Ashford and carpool from there. Order's are to turn away any single occupancy cars from the registration area, yiz have been warned. |
| aidan roe | May 15 2012, 8:18am | Brendan I only saw your post this morning. I wasn't trying to be smart about either your friends or anyone else who is decent enough to let us use there property. I dont mind what people do with money collected. Its entirely their business. Aidan |
| Brian Leddin | May 17 2012, 1:28am | Reading this thread makes me feel glad that I live in Limerick! We've some lovely, uncrowded hills within 20 mins drive of the city. |
| Paul Joyce | May 17 2012, 9:06am | I was car park Nazi at Carrick mountain race last night, with a dedicated car-pool area at Ashford well-flagged on the forum, the problems with a small car park at registration needing to be catered for; and we still had over twenty single-occupancy cars turn up. Every one of them gave the same look of incredulity when I turned them away, some argued with me loudly and at length, didn't I understand they had come all the way from Dublin? or had just got out of work late?? or never heard there was no single-occ cars allowed??? Some proceeded to double park their cars on the narrow road outside the GAA club anyway, which led to others pointing to the car and asking why they couldn't do the same. Others proceeded to park their cars on the grass verges of the estate, right beside where the tidy town lads plant their flowers. There was parents dropping off their kids to camogie in with the mix; I'm sure they loved us taking over their village in such a manner. To those (majority) who carpooled, fair play to you. To those who decided the rules shouldn't apply to them- you're the problem, you know it, and as far as I could see, you don't care. |
| Tim Chapman | May 17 2012, 9:17am | Maybe you have to dig quiet deep to find its recommended to carpool. Maybe people dont really read the forum. Could someone put a note up on the home page? the no headphones one seem to work. We had 4 in are car last night and thought we were kings. we are looking for a really skinny person next week to make it 5! Tim |
| Dermot Murphy | May 17 2012, 9:32am | Tim, it was clearly noted on the events page. Do people need to be spoon fed??? |
| John Ahern | May 17 2012, 9:43am | As first aid person last night I half thought some of my casualties would be victims of the car park attendant. All this talk of nazis and strict enforcement had me worried. Thankfully Paul was diplomatic and there were no pre race injuries (unless they went straight to hospital). ;) |
| Eva Fairmaner | May 17 2012, 9:45am | Dermot is quite right - do we really have to spoon feed people? I actually find it amazing that people persist in saying that they were not aware that they couldn't turn up in a single occupancy car. Using the excuse that they didn't see the forum/request etc is priceless.....how do those people then know where to turn up for races if they haven't been on the IMRA site??? It is not acceptable that people berate Paul or whoever is implementing the CarParking job - it is a thankless job and some runners would do well to remember that Paul volunteered and to mind their manners and in addition not annoy locals whose access is impeded by these selfish individuals. |
| Mick Hanney | May 17 2012, 9:49am | I think in general the parking went well and helped with the orderly management of the event - and its a pity that this thread is getting the discussion not the event thread itself. Please post there - and not about cars :-) I think it was extremely bad form for cars to be parked outside the designated car park last night on grass verges etc. We had the good fortune to get the use of the local facilities. It is important we don't abuse that privilege. Just down the road from the car park there was ample overflow parking in the village. Thanks to the majority who were all onside with this. |
| John Langenbach | May 17 2012, 10:07am | On the other hand, with nearly 200 people involved last night, having only 20-ish single occupant cars arrive shows how much progress is being made and means the system is basically working. After the no-doubt stern talking to they received from Paul those 20 will be more likely to make some attempt to be less of a nuisance in the future. We don't want to be so inflexible that the person turning up to their first race is turned away or turned off before they even register. Emphasizing the informally arranged car pool from the pub seems to be having much better effect than booking places through the website (which I see as serving a different and valuable purpose - enabling those without their own transport to get to races). I'm not trying to reduce the level of attention on the matter or the need for vigilance but the issue does seem to have been improved somewhat by the measures already implemented (carpool coordinator at a designated car-pooling location, stern talker-to at the registration venue and regular reminders that car-pooling is essential). |
| Gerry Lalor | May 17 2012, 10:16am | I imagine that nearly all IMRA members will look for their race result on the website. Maybe one solution to those that protest that they do now know about car-pooling, is to have a page that appears for 10 to 15 seconds before the results tab is opened, which concisely describes the necessity of carpooling to the future of such races. Probably annoying, but it would eliminate any argument of ignorance, exceptions for the first time runner. |
| Geraldine O'Shea | May 17 2012, 10:20am | Could the message be relayed via the new membership form as well ? Just a brief heads up for the newcomer on the importance of car-pooling etc. and that people acknowledge by signing the form that they have read it. |
| Ronan Hickey | May 17 2012, 10:38am | I don't think that the reason the "No Headphones" Rule is so successful has anything to do with visibility. It is due to the fact that anyone who wears them gets DQ'd and with Mr. Shiels and other volunteer photographers clicking away, that's simple to enforce. If it affects people's results and races directly they start to pay attention. Driving a single-occupancy car however doesn't affect anyone's race results, and we wouldn't be able to match cars to people anyway. We could of course appoint a CIMRA member to key one offenders car per event with a car-key randomly chosen from the key bag....but maybe that's getting a little too militant. ;-) Plus the standards aren't to be equally applied. This is only really for the Leinster League. Single Occupancy cars are fine (and probably necessary, given the lack of runners) for things like the Leinster Championships. Ro |
| Brendan Lawlor | May 17 2012, 10:54am | With 20 single occupancy cars last night, I reckon we have halved the problem in a week so well done Mick and especially Paul Joyce as the man at the coal face. And a big thank you to everyone else for making the effort To the 20 punters who turned up in your cars last night, hopefully you also understand why we(IMRA) need to do this - if Mick gets complaints from the GAA in Glenealy or the local residents about too many cars we simply won't have this race in 2013. The exact same applies for the next week -I'll put up detailed instructions on a separate thread. Finally as next weeks Race Director I reserve the right to refuse race entry to anyone who gets abusive with the car-park official at Glasnamullan |
| Common Sense | May 17 2012, 11:09am | @Brendan Definition: Abusive - Using, containing, or characterized by harshly or coarsely insulting language. I dont think anyone in single occupancy cars is going quite this far. I think the reasons why there are single occupany cards should be looked at, and the drivers at the next race asked the question: - Why ? - lack of time, due to loaeving work late - not aware of rule - just chancing it - don't know the area and where the carpools is - don't like getting lifts from others - don't like giving others lifts - etc..... Then you might get to the root of the issue and be able to sort it without the parking marshall getting 'abused'. |
| Paul Smyth | May 17 2012, 11:28am | @Common Sense Why should anyone pay any attention to someone who doesn't even have the stones to post under their real name? I wish IMRA would change the forums so that anonymous posting isn't possible. |
| Common Sense | May 17 2012, 11:35am | @Paul Nice one, take the topic completely off the issue. Why not put in something about the state of the country and the bailout while youre at it. At least my post was constructive. |
| Turlough Conway | May 17 2012, 11:55am | @Common sense you forgot one: Not being able to walk from the overflow parking in Glenealy village to start of hill run. And just to shorten your list to 2: 1.Wasnt aware of rule 2.Was aware of rule and turned up alone anyway (for whatever reason)= chancing it = park elsewhere. |
| Donal Troddyn | May 17 2012, 12:00pm | Paul - Anonymous posting lets new people without myIMRA accounts ask questions before their first race, so it's valuable for that. Sometimes it means there's spam and pseudonyms, but so be it. |
| Derek Kellett | May 17 2012, 1:03pm | May I ask, the car pooling down in Ashford, how well did it work ? I wasn't down yesterday evening but felt that it was an ideal solution for me personally (allowing for flexiblity. This is something I will be watching for particularly for midweek races where car pooling for me is really not an option. |
| Paul Smyth | May 17 2012, 1:42pm | Derek, In my case I felt it worked well. I think this was because the best route to the event brought me right past the car-pooling location. Having said that there are some additional considerations. It is essential to leave earlier to ensure a good chance of meeting up with other people to pool with. If you don't allow extra time you could arrive at the car pool location and end up waiting in vain, and run the consequent risk on failing to register in time. This is a very real concern. If it gets to the point where a lot of people form regular car-pools the number of people available for ad-hoc pooling may make this an even more significant problem. One solution would be to locate registration at the car-pool location but that approach also has it's drawbacks. Another approach would be on-line registration. For people who are usually pressed for time to make registration, or who cannot be sure of the exact time they can leave, the ad-hoc car-pool is probably not going to be a solution, and other people will probably be reluctant to car-pool with them from Dublin. |
