Best trail runner to buy
| Author | Date | Message |
|---|---|---|
| Brian Troy | Dec 5 2015, 6:07pm | Hi Just getting prepared for the mountain running season and as this is my first venture into the sport, I am not sure what brand of trail runner to invest in. Can anyone lead me in the right direction? Thanks |
| Brian O Murchu | Dec 5 2015, 6:44pm | Hi Brian, Inov8's have great grip, but the downside for me is they're too narrow for my feet |
| Brian Troy | Dec 5 2015, 7:31pm | thanks for that. Is there any specific inov8 make of shoe you would recommend? |
| Bernard Fortune | Dec 5 2015, 7:54pm | Highly recommend the X talons,for the best all round shoe.Just put 55 races in a pair and was only starting to feel every stone.Not bad for 120euro. |
| Brian Troy | Dec 5 2015, 8:05pm | thanks Bernard. will check them out. any thoughts on salomon speedcross 3? any experiences with these? |
| Bernard Fortune | Dec 5 2015, 9:46pm | Yes I have used Speedcross for years.Actually use them casually still.They look great but unfortunately the soles peel off when you rough them up after a while that is.The Inov 8 X talon sole,very hard to find better. |
| Brian Troy | Dec 5 2015, 10:16pm | thanks for the help Bernard. not sure about ordering them online would rather fit them. where would I get them? I would say not many normal sports shops have them. thanks |
| Shane O'Malley | Dec 5 2015, 10:20pm | Hi Brian, Pop into 53 Degrees North. They have IMOV-8 and Soloman. Should be able to look after you. Shane |
| Brian Troy | Dec 5 2015, 11:06pm | Thanks Shane |
| Paul Tierney (Tipp) | Dec 5 2015, 11:29pm | Hi Brian, here's my 2 cents on trail shoes: Inov-8 X-Talon - exceptional grip and really good shoe design in terms of actual weight, ability to shed water and mud and they have a light feel on your foot either wet or dry. The frustrating thing about them is you'll end up avoiding taking them on road or harder surfaces because the sole will wear down quite quickly. But for me it's the best off-road shoe there is. The 190 in particular is quite minimal and will take some getting used, start with the 212, but once you're used to them you'll never want to race in anything else. Salomon Speedcross 3 - good grip and a more durable sole but it's a heavier shoe than the Inov-8 and feels clunkier on the foot. But if you're looking for a shoe that will grip in the mud and will last then it's a decent option. Saucony Peregrine 5 - a really light and durable all-round shoe, weight in between the Inov-8 and Salomon, it can be used on road, trail and off-trail although it doesn't perform as strongly as the Inov-8 or the Salomon off-trail. But it has a wider range of use. It's the shoe I'd be most likely to recommend to a new-comer to hill running. There are lots other brands and shoes but they're the ones I have experience of. |
| Brian Troy | Dec 5 2015, 11:36pm | That's great Paul. Thanks for that info. living in Clare and not many places in Ennis that stock them. Would anyone know a place in limerick or Galway that would stock these brands? |
| Conor Murphy | Dec 6 2015, 12:23pm | Not the best that others have referred to, and really not for muddier open mountain or winter routes, but the Adidas Kanadia is pretty solid. Will handle most terrain, particularly trail and IMRA runs in the summer and grand on tarred road too. Cheaper than many alternatives so might be good to use while settling into the sport. |
| Angus Tyner | Dec 27 2015, 3:04pm | Does anyone else think the build quality of Inov8 has deteriorated? Zoe got pair of xtalons this time last year and the uppers on both have separated from the soles. There's not much wear on the soles which the xtalons are renowned for. My later invo8s are not lasting as well as the first ones. Usually the issue with kids is they grow out of their shoes but Zoe's xtalon's have fallen apart before she has grown out of them. Quite reluctant to get another pair. |
| James H Cahill | Dec 27 2015, 7:42pm | Angus, I completely agree. My last pair of inov-8 had a new lacing eye structure. Two of the eyes broke on each shoe in the first race I wore them in just two weeks after purchase. After a protracted delay inov-8 replaced them and the soles separated from the uppers of the replacsmnts within 3 months. Changed to Walsh's. Brilliant shoes but very soft soles and the lugs wear away in no time (of course that may be my gazelle like stride that does that!) |
| Paul Smyth | Dec 27 2015, 11:48pm | Actually I think their build quality has always been sh*te. I went through 4 or 5 pairs before I gave up completely on them. Mind you the build quality wasn't the only reason I stopped using them. Poor build quality isn't unique to Inov8 though. I used Brroks Cascadias a lot as well and they were very hard wearing until the last two or three generations when the build quality tanked. I believe the problem is the constant changes companies make to their shoes, mainly for marketing reasons it seems to me. Every 6 months to a year the design is redone, often introducing new materials in the process. Never mind how good a previous design was, it gets tweaked each year, and it amounts to essentially an experiment conducted by us, the buying public, with the whole process starting again the following year. I don't believe many runners want this. Personally, having found a shoe that works for me I'd be happy to keep buying it year after year. I'm currently using New Balance Minimus Zero v2 which I use for everything, training, orienteering and hill-running, and I find them very comfortable (especially for long races) and they seem to be hard-wearing and reasonably grippy. Sadly, based on the difficulty I had getting extra pairs when I bought them I suspect they may already be discontinued. Sigh! I had a similar experience to James with a recent pair of Cascadias, when several eyelets on a brand new pair, tore soon after I bought them. It was a completely new design from all the previous models and tellingly, it was dropped for the next version which went back to the previous lacing system. The other problem that reduced the build quality with the Cascadias is the increase in the amount of filigree on the shoe. The more bits of individual material sewn or glued onto a shoe the more weak points susceptible to wear that it creates. Inov8 aren't the worst in this regard but there is a lot of unnecessary filigree on the shoes you mentioned. Part of the problem is that most shoe manufacturers are US based and are producing shoes for the US market where fell-running as we know it doesn't exist and I don't think they see the kinds of wear we get here very much. Most of the damage is caused by water and mud which we enjoy in abundance at most races! I've tried a lot of shoes over the years and if you can find a pair that fits perfectly you can't do better than the Walsh PB. I used them for years and found them brilliant in every way. I eventually had to stop using them though as I found that they started cutting into my heels. I never figured out why this started happening. It may have been some slight change in the shoes or something to do with my running or my feet. I always found them very hardwearing despite their appearance which conveys the opposite impression. Another thing worth mentioning about the Walshes is that they rarely change the design and they are a British company who are intimately familiar with the nature of the sport in the UK and Ireland. I just noticed that James recommended the Walshes as well but mentioned that the soles wear out quickly. Are you using them on roads James? I never train on roads or other hard surfaces and I haven't experienced this so I'm wondering if that's why they're wearing out quickly. I don't think the Walshes are really designed for use on roads so if you are going to do any significant milage on hard surfaces you might need to look for something else. |
| James H Cahill | Dec 28 2015, 8:52am | Great post Paul and I think your insight into the constant changes shoe manufacturers make and the excess filagree is right on the money. Also, as with your experience when the eyelets pulled out of my inov-8s which had the new lacing system they had changed the lacing system back to the original in the replacement pair. So clearly the new lacing system was not a successful redesign. Re the wear in the Walsh's lugs - yes I wore them on races which had significant road sections and this caused the quick wearing lugs. So lesson learned in that regard - they are for off road use only. As you highlight Walsh make no changes to their design and they are very very hard wearing which belies their appearance as they look almost minimalist. |
| Conor Murphy | Dec 28 2015, 8:29pm | Had Walsh PB Elite and liked them but the just fell apart going through thick mud halfway up Carrauntoohil one day. Changed to Inov8 Mudclaws and love them. I think a lot might depend on the individual foot, something as simple as where the "toe bend" lands, and it can be a bit hit and miss. Though guess they will always try to minimise costs so accept that a lot of the problem can be cutbacks in build quality. |
| Angus Tyner | Jan 7 2016, 3:56pm | Zoë is shod again with a pair of Icebug acceleritas4. Got them from Germany. Have to say my first impressions are of good build quality with durable material. Direct replacement for the xtalons. I've no doubt they will perform at least as well if not better. Thoughts on durability will have to wait a few months. I think I've bought my last pair of Inov8s |
| Paul O'Grady | Jan 7 2016, 6:36pm | Great purchase Angus. I got a pair of ice bugs in Sweden about 6 years ago. I only use them for the snowy/icy winter races but they are still in perfect condition - they are very hard wearing. I would definitely buy another pair if they were available in Ireland |
| Angus Tyner | Jan 10 2016, 6:43pm | Zoe's delighted with them. In her opinion, better than the xtalons in nearly every facet. They're lighter, grippier, more durable, don't absorb water. They don't drain like the xtalons, but they expelled the water through the top fairly quickly and they were still lighter than the xtalons when wet. If the water is an issue Icebug have a video on youtube about drilling holes in the soles. Bottom line I've a happy daughter and I'm confident my €90 is going to travel much more distance. |
| Derek Weston | Jan 12 2016, 5:34pm | Hi folks. Any feedback on the new Inov-8 Terraclaw 250 shoe? JuJu gave them a good review on his page and Trail Running magazine rated them as a great all rounder. I'm contemplating a pair so any views would be great. Thanks. |
| Keith Mulvey | Jan 12 2016, 11:45pm | Brian, I've used the Terraclaws for a couple of months now. Agree with Juju. Excellent all-rounder and very comfortable. Took a couple of runs to gain full confidence in them coming from a Speedcross 3 which have better arch support. Wider toe box in the TC giving amazing traction except in the muddiest condition where traction was ok but the wider toebox compensated. I have really opened up on technical descents using these with no bother. A couple of bruised arches here and there but nothing of concern. Lacing and insole are a bit primitive. Recently laced up using the extra eyelet at the ankle that nobody generally uses and the fit is much better and less debris getting in. |
| Gordon Place | Apr 5 2016, 5:33pm | Hi All, I'm also new to off roading so looking to change runners. When I started running my knees were killing me so did the gait analysis in store, result looked like my feet were on backwards so I got one of the higher support models for over pronators. Have scaled back a bit since and currently on the Brooks Ravenna 6 which I didn't like at first but I think are actually better for me. Was just wondering if over pronation really matters for trail shoes given that the terrain is all over the place anyway? I'd still be looking for something with good arch support though if anyone has any recommendations. Just wouldn't like to be directed in store to a support shoe that is not good in other more vital areas. Gordon |
| Conor Murphy | Apr 7 2016, 2:48pm | Does pronation even...matter that much? Maybe on smoother surfaces. But on open mountain and bad trails, where terrain rather than running form might dictate how the foot lands, I was just never really bothered about it. Gotta admit I've never had mine checked out, or done a gait analysis...but on the other hand I've just acquired my first Garmin "("what's the cheapest ye got that does pacing") and I'm a fan of the just get out there and run type mentality. I should also say that I've never won more than a category! So would be interested to hear what others think of the whole pronation and gait analysis thing. |
| Rene Borg | Apr 7 2016, 3:15pm | Gordon/Conor: pronation is a normal action of the foot which has to happen as part of shock absorption function of the foot. Excessive pronation is not inbuilt into you - it is a result of excessive ground contact time (usually stemming from a postural issue causing over-striding or poor rhythm - again generally from taking too few steps for the surface in question or executing certain muscle actions too late or at the wrong moment) or from deformation of the foot (your big having been pushed out of position - back and inwards generally and thus unable to perform its primary function which is to arrest pronation and engage re-supination of the foot). All these issues are fixable (unless the deformation is genetic or a permanent injury - i.e. loss of the big toe). We have filmed this many times - you can put someone on a treadmill and show them pronating. then you can adjust their posture ever so slightly, or their rhythm, and within seconds the pronation observed disappears. On terrain, it definitely matters less because the average deviation in every foot strike is greater than on even terrain so you are going to see all sorts of variety, away from the standard, in your landing, so it is more about having a body that can cope with that variety than trying to control one small movement observed in isolation in a controlled environment. So if you're an excessive pronator - i.e. experiencing negative symptoms from it - you generally want to 1) improve your foot function and 2) improve your posture and rhythm (i.e. your level of skillfulness a a runner). |
| Gordon Place | Apr 7 2016, 9:27pm | Thanks Rene. I did suffer badly with my knees until changing to a supported trainer so it did help. Maybe just a quick fix and should have worked on form. But I have been reducing that support with updated trainers based on store advice. I think the uneven trail and/or softer ground makes it less of an issue alright. Adjusting form seems fine until fatigue sets in and I resort to bad habits. Obviously not fit enough to keep it up. Back to trail runners, I tried the Salomon Vario and it seemed a good fit for me. Do people find the Speedcross Pro a bit too 'knobbly'on rocks or harder ground? Didn't like the Innov8 on, felt a bit too flat footed. Wouldn't mind trying Saucony Peregrine. Who has had best selection around Dublin? Sorry for all the questions |
| Declan O'Dwyer | Apr 7 2016, 10:25pm | Hey Gordon, most of summer races should be run in fairly dry conditions so high levels of grip are probably unnecessary. IMO cushioning is not only unnecessary on mountain terrain, but is more likely to lead to ankle twists/sprains. I like the inov8's but all brands you mention should be fine. |
| John Dempsey79 | Apr 8 2016, 7:59am | Thanks for the post Rene I've not come across pronation described like that before but I can see the logic of it. Is there somewhere to look for further reading on same? Thanks |
| Paul Tierney (Tipp) | May 11 2016, 1:09pm | Hi guys, I'd said I'd revisit this thread to update you on my trail shoe journey :) After hearing about the good reports on the Icebug runners I made the jump and invested! Firstly the price is a bit higher, the Acceleritas 5 are €129 and then there's a €10 shipping cost so they ain't cheap. That's direct from the Icebug site so maybe there's a cheaper option that I missed somewhere else. When they arrived I was very impressed, the build quality seemed really really good and they seemed a sturdy shoe while still very light. My hope for the shoe would be that it would give me equal grip and feedback to the X-Talon 190 that I normally wear except with better durability of the sole so things were looking good. The fit was good with the only annoying element for me being that when I laced them tight on my lower foot, as I was going to be heading out on some technical downhills, the material on the shoe gathered in and creased quite a bit. Just an annoyance for me really that I don't see with the X-Talons 190 which fit the width of my foot perfectly. On my feet they felt really nice and light and comfortable. So off I went for my first run on Keeper Hill and I had planned a route on MTB trails so plenty of testing terrain. The first think I noticed was as I started on a fire road that the feedback from the ground was equal to that of the X-Talon 190..... until I really started to notice every stone on the road. The sole in terms of thickness and protection is probably very similar to the X-Talon 190 except the lugs on the Acceleritas 5 as much more spread out leaving large gaps in some places on the sole and those areas are very soft and unprotected. As I found out about 5 minutes later when a very sharp stone went right up through the sole which felt like someone stabbing me in the foot with a knife. I'm still limping a little two days later. I carried on and completed the rest of the run regardless. Some other feedback I had for them.... when they get wet they don't handle water as well as the X-Talon 190s. It's so long since I wore a pair of X-Talon 212s that I can't compare but the 190s are definitely superior to the Acceleritas for drainage in my opinion. It wasn't that the shoe held onto a lot of water, instead it held onto a little which left a squelching feeling on the sole of the shoe. And one design element that I can't understand at all is the integrated insole which has a smooth surface so when it gets wet it is slippery. Like having a wet sock directly on smooth rubber which is not a nice feeling. The Inov-8 runners have a textured insole which feels much better when wet. So that's my experiences with them so far. Having said all that I'm not giving up on them yet. I've only been out in them once albeit for a good long run but I'm still interested to see what the durability is like for the sole and I really hope they last because I'm sick of handing money over to Inov-8. And I'll give the protection of the sole another chance once my foot heals up!! It could be that the Icebug are a really good training runner but as it stands I'll still be reaching for the X-Talon 190 on race day. It's an exceptional shoe. |
| Angus Tyner | May 11 2016, 4:05pm | After kitting out Zoe in them I got a pair of acceleritis 4s for myself. Done 150km. No issues with wear and extremely grippy on rock wet or dry. Will be wearing them this evening at Scalp if anyone wants to have a look at them |
| Angus Tyner | Jul 20 2016, 8:30pm | Update Firstly sportsshoes.com have inov8 promotion, ending soon I think. Xtalon 212 40% off and perhaps another 10% if email subscriber. I'm tempted! Done 360km in my Icebugs, mainly orienteering and hill runs. Very little external wear and grip is still as good as new. Internally the insoles have disintegrated. They are only about 1mm thick and glued in. I pulled out the remains and inserted insoles from a pair of inov8 roclites. This combination might be quite good. The fit may be a bit tight once I tape my ankles but it will give me a bit more protection from small sharp stones which can impact through the sole. I have not got bruised such as what happened to Paul but I can understand how it can happen. |
| Brian Kitson | Jul 22 2016, 10:28am | I'm on my third pair of Inov8 Talon 212s and highly recommend them having worn them on everything from shorter IMRA stuff to 100km mountainous alpine events They come in two fit styles; 'precision' (indicated with a 'P' on the label) for the narrower foot which I wear or standard.. The current offer mentioned on sportshoes really is excellent value, I haven't used that site before but am tempted to invest in my forth pair https://www.sportsshoes.com/product/ino824/inov8-x~talon-212-off-road-running-shoes-(precision-fit)-~-ss16/ |
| Gordon Place | Jul 22 2016, 1:40pm | Sportpursuit.com also have an Inov-8 sale, as well as other trail shoes I've never heard of. I've used them before with no probs |
| Jeff Swords | Jul 22 2016, 7:45pm | Angus, did you ever buy anything in the end and try the additional 10% off for being a subscriber? It'll negate the €7.95 shipping fee somewhat. |
| Angus Tyner | Jul 22 2016, 10:07pm | No Jeff, the temptation didn't overcome the fear of them falling apart at the seams long before they're worn out and I'm happy enough with what I have. |
| Paul Tierney (Tipp) | Aug 15 2016, 4:01pm | Hi folks - just as a quick follow-on regarding the Icebugs - I'm still using mine albeit like Angus I swapped out the insole (I'm being generous calling it an insole really) for a 6mm inov-8 insole that I had lying around. It has improved the shoe hugely I think. I don't feel as exposed to sharp rocks as I was, every now and then I get the odd pinch but nothing as bad as with the old insole. And the overall fit and secure hold of my foot within the shoe has improved as well. The durability of the grip from the sole and the overall build quality remains to be excellent, apart from the insole. I'm still not fully converted though, on race day I'll still be going for Inov-8. Although they have a new range out now that I don't know anything about but the X-Talon 190 is discontinued so there should be a good opportunity to pick up some at good prices over the coming weeks/months. |
| Martin Manning | Aug 19 2016, 8:13am | Hi all, Im looking for a retailer of trail shoes, Innov-8, Salmon, Saucony, not a lot of time to buy online, so need to try them first. Any shops in Sligo / Mayo area ? Dont think Call of the Wild sell them :( Cheers. M |
| Angus Tyner | Aug 12 2017, 3:36pm | Updating here as I've just posted pics on IMRA facebook group of my Icebug acceleritas4 vs new pair. Mine are well worn down, but have covered 1040km, 30,000 climb and I have a new pair on the way. Referencing thread title, I'm not saying they're the best, but I'm very happy to continue with them. |
