Irish Mountain
Running Association

End of League Handicap

Forum Messages

Eoin KeithJul 8 2010, 10:11amThe events page for next Wednesday's race has been updated. The format of this year's race will be different to the usual handicap style race, and will not be on the old Kippure route.
wayne JenkinsJul 8 2010, 11:49am"Watches (and any other time keeping devices) will be prohibited."

mmmmmmm...... Any Rulings on carrying a Sundial & Compass????
Paul O'GradyJul 8 2010, 1:38pmHow is this new format anything near an End of League Handicap race???

The idea behind the handicap is that if everyone performs at their average ability then we should all cross the line together.

That format invariably gives middle or back of the pack runners an advantage if they have been training hard all year and have improved and it allows someone who has improved over the year throuh hard work to win a race.

The new format is nothing to do with that - and takes away from the spirit of the occasion.

By all means run such an event - but leave the end of league handicap as that - an end of league handicap.

This new format only gives the advantage back to the elite who have an idea as to how long it would take them to cover such terrain.
Colm HillJul 8 2010, 2:16pmSo you don't know:
how far
how much climb
type of terrain

So we know nothing except we have to finish at 8:30,
Whats stopping a runner slowing down towards the end if they don't think its close enough to half 8...

Seems to come down to how good you are at guessing the time and not really a race as such.... Should be fun!
Jim FitzharrisJul 8 2010, 2:42pmPaul,

This was how the Djouce handicap race was organised in recent years. It was a genuine handicap and it was NOT won by an elite runner! In fact, if memory serves me correctly, the elites were some way off the mark, and that was on a well known route. Runners have to play fair: no watches or asking passers-by the time!


Alan CollinsJul 8 2010, 2:46pmWell, I disagree with Paul in that I don't think this format necessarily gives an advantage to anyone - you don't have to be a fast runner to gain mountain experience and have a good idea of your performance level. However I do lament the demise of the old format which provided a independently assessed handicap based on known performance. With self assessment it is likely to be less competitive - not a race as such as Colm says. Overall though I'm all for innovation and creativity so it gets my approval. Perhaps I'll go for a ramble at 5pm (with my sundial) and have a picnic near the finish line.
Conor O'MearaJul 8 2010, 2:57pm
Sounds like a great idea to me.
I'm looking forward to the hustle bustle, mind games, and general mayhem as we all try to cross the finish line together at 8.30.

I love the Kippure Race too, but I can do that route anytime I have an hour to spare.

Mick HanneyJul 8 2010, 4:03pmPersonally I disliked the old handicap system and the Kippure route. I felt we were doing more damage than not last year on that route. A handicap race like that is logistically difficult to manage and I always felt sorry for those trying to manage the undertaking.

I'm up for something new. If you don't try something you won't know if it works. In any race you are primarily racing against yourself anyway. In any race you can choose to run as hard or as easy as you like. The same is true here. I don't see how an educated guess at a time benefits anyone - we can all guess our pace over certain conditions. And thats all it is, a guess, as pace can vary widely from race to race.

While we've traditionally had a handicap race there is nothing to say we must have one. We should be able to change race types on the calendar in the same way as we change routes from time to time to liven things up and keep people interested.

At the end of the day its all about having a bit of fun whilst running in the hills and thats a good thing in my book.
suzanne kennyJul 8 2010, 4:18pmI'm not registered for the myimra thing yet but am offering to help at this race if needed as a non running volunteer :)
aidan roeJul 8 2010, 7:27pmMick, I disagree strongly. This "fun" thing is over-rated. I didn't start this mountain running craic for "fun". How can the grind of uphill racing, running or walking be "fun". Or the fear of breaking your neck on the downhill with someone breathing down your neck, be "fun". Or getting eaten by midgies, or sunburnt,or pissed on, or loosing our shoes in a smelly bog, or twisting your ankle, or getting lost be "fun"
So I hope whatever Eoin is proposing is no fun at all. and when its over I expect to feel whipped and not to have enjoyed myself. But thats just me.
So Paul, go out on Wednesday and have some "fun"(or not(more fun)) and see how it goes and stuff the timing, or your position or where it's on.

I have an idea. Maybe John Greene could get involved as a marshall on the hill somewhere and give directions

John GreeneJul 8 2010, 9:18pmif i'm allowed get involved again it may be safer for everyone if im assigned a more menial task like holding a gate closed or swatting midgies at the finish line or something.

Perhaps next Wed, the BBQ should be beforehand with the winner of the Leinster League handicapped with having to eat 10 burgers at registration working back through to the field to runners with an average over 150% who should be allowed an hour to digest a meal of their choice.
suzanne kennyJul 8 2010, 11:51pmhaha bout the bbq b4 race suggestion..brilliant idea!
Paul NolanJul 9 2010, 9:30amOne of the great things about IMRA is if you really want something to happen all you have to do is put your hand up, offer to organise/direct and invariably it happens. Easy.
Joan StapletonJul 9 2010, 5:10pmMick,
You may include me as a volunteer if required for this race.
I hope to run too. Thanks.

Sarah SteerJul 9 2010, 9:47pmAidan,

It doen't have to be fun to be fun.

Well that's my motto anyway.
Mick HanneyJul 11 2010, 12:51pmDistance and climb have now been posted. While short the route has a bit of everything.

It could get a little mad towards 8.30pm but I intend to try record people's start and finishing times over the night, so we'll have a record of times for results to post with the event later. The main prize of the evening will go to the person over the line nearest 8.30pm according to the Race Director's watch. A couple of spot prizes for near misses and a spot prize kept by for the fastest over the course which might take a while to work out but that should keep people racing.

No sun dials allowed either :-) Not that it would do you much use in low cloud.

A couple more non-running volunteers would be welcome. Thanks.
Amidou DembeleJul 11 2010, 1:26pmMick,
I will be happy to help out as non runner for this race. Please could you put in down me there (I do not have yet an imra account).

Mick HanneyJul 11 2010, 1:30pmThanks all. I'd add you in a mo' Amidou.
Mick HanneyJul 12 2010, 10:45amHi, Thanks for the volunteers who have come forward for this. I'm missing some email addresses. Amidou, Fergal, Joan, John, Kate and Suzanne. Can you pop me an email to mickhanney at ireland dot com. That way I can send out a volunteer plan to all in advance. Or, if you are not on myimra yet txt me your mobile and I'll invite you. My no. is 086 8539554. Once you are on myimra you can add your email details I think. Cheers guys.
Jeff FitzsimonsJul 12 2010, 12:29pmMick, I've just switched to not running so bear that in mind when assigning roles.

Mick HanneyJul 12 2010, 1:50pmFurther Instructions:-
- Look at the distance and climb posted.
- A map will be posted in advance of Wednesday but not so far in advance as to give anyone the advantage of being able to get a recce in.
- Please know that the ground you will run is a mixture of trail, single track and wet boggy ground. Grippy shoes recommended.
- The route will have a certain amount of overlap out and back but a central part will be split so that ascending and fast descending runners are kept separate.
- Estimate how long its going to take you.
- Runners will start the race at 1 minute intervals from 7.30 which hopefully will end up being a set of mini-races.
- At registration you can sign-up to a start time which will get you around the course in your expected time. Its your responsibility to get to the start line in time for your start time.
- Please be patient at the finish as it could be quite crowded and be nice to your marshalls as we try to record your finish time for the records.


P.S. Prizegiving will happen immediately after in the Tibradden car park.
Mick HanneyJul 12 2010, 4:55pmRemember. No watches allowed on this run.
Mick HanneyJul 12 2010, 10:01pmFolks, I've enough volunteers with the exception of a 1st aider?
Ger PowerJul 13 2010, 10:35amHi

It is usual to start the handicap race at 7pm the 7.30pm start may not give some runners the opportunity to finish at 8.30

Mick HanneyJul 13 2010, 10:41amThe 7.30 start time is a rough guide. If anyone feels they need to start before than thats fine. You can record your start time with the starter volunteers before you set off.

This route is shorter than the Kippure handicap route. Map now up.
Karen MooreJul 13 2010, 3:59pmHi 3 of us need a lift to Tribadden carpark for race tomorrow. We're leaving from Trinity...anyone got some seats??
Mick HanneyJul 13 2010, 8:29pmNo 1st aider yet? Anyone?

No laptop needed for this (thankfully).

I am missing email addresses for John Maher, Kate Cronin and Brian Caulfield. My email is mick dot

Can all volunteers be at Tibradden for 6.30, thanks.
Barry TennysonJul 14 2010, 8:13amKaren Moore , I can collect the 3 of you at Sandyford Luas stop at 18:00 hours. Ring me 087 2551489 to confirm.
Karen MooreJul 14 2010, 11:37amThanks - we have a lift so see you there
Mick HanneyJul 14 2010, 12:08pmFolks,

The start / finish line for this race is across the road from the Tibradden car park. Space is limited in this area so please do not congregate at that side of the road before or after the race. Please use caution crossing on this stretch of road as it can be busy enough with traffic.

I hope we don't get too wet tonight and that people enjoy the route that is offered up and somewhat of a different race format for a change.

Also, if you can car pool to get to Tibradden then all the better.


seamus kilcullenJul 14 2010, 5:24pmwhy is the prize giving not in a pub?
seamus kilcullen
Mick HanneyJul 15 2010, 12:23amSorry Seamus. I should have been quicker on the ball as regards a pub... Apols.

Apologies Liz Ryan - I couldn't find your finish time on the sheets. If you know any of the finishers around you we can adjust the time accordingly.

Thanks all!

Summary results:
10 closest times to 8:30

Aidan Boyle 00:00:03
Aidan Bligh 00:00:04
Martin Ryan 00:00:06
Derek Livingst. 00:00:09
Louise Mullee 00:00:10
Peter Cooney 00:00:11
Philip Browne 00:00:16
Tommy Galvin 00:00:20
Brendan Doherty 00:00:26
Karen Moore 00:00:28

10 quickest times:- (Joe - the falls were worth it)
Joe Mooney 00:32:25
Connor Short 00:32:55
Des Kennedy 00:33:45
John Bell 00:34:09
Ian O'Kane 00:34:13
Martin Francis 00:34:59
Ruairi Short 00:35:08
Johan Dehanhs.. 00:35:54
Kate Cronin 00:36:01
Robin Brady 00:37:16

Start Time Race No. Name Finish time Race time
18:30 790 Mike Gomm 20:28:55 01:58:55
18:55 196 Brigitte Morrogh 19:46:40 00:51:40
18:55 326 W Morrogh 20:06:06 01:11:06
19:14 55 Seamus Kilcullen 20:27:47 01:13:47
19:25 705 Sarah Estonga 20:34:27 01:09:27
19:32 179 Kathleen Bent 20:27:55 00:55:55
19:33 936 Mary O'Colmain 20:25:27 00:52:27
19:33 7 Ger Power 20:26:19 00:53:19
19:35 373 Liz Ryan ???????? ????????
19:35 544 Eavan Casey 20:25:12 00:50:12
19:35 599 Gillesa O'Shea 20:26:27 00:51:27
19:35 602 Sarah Mcloone 20:27:07 00:52:07
19:35 617 Christine Adams 20:29:18 00:54:18
19:36 589 Lish Groarke 20:24:51 00:48:51
19:37 542 Aiden Gillard 20:22:00 00:45:00
19:37 540 Colin Shevelin 20:22:30 00:45:30
19:37 29 Paula Keohan 20:24:47 00:47:47
19:37 842 Caoimhe Muldoon 20:26:31 00:49:31
19:37 110 Barry Tennyson 20:26:43 00:49:43
19:39 991 Bernie O'Boyle 20:25:02 00:46:02
19:39 976 Jack O'Toole 20:25:53 00:46:53
19:39 407 Feilim Guinan 20:25:54 00:46:54
19:39 672 James Mulligan 20:28:28 00:49:28
19:39 1077 Angela Flynn 20:29:07 00:50:07
19:39 111 Brendan Doherty 20:29:34 00:50:34
19:40 616 Geraint Jones 20:24:24 00:44:24
19:40 569 Rachel Standish 20:25:26 00:45:26
19:40 1024 Stephen Brennan 20:26:20 00:46:20
19:40 106 Alan Collins 20:27:41 00:47:41
19:40 26 Aidan Roe 20:28:11 00:48:11
19:40 843 Karen Moore 20:29:32 00:49:32
19:40 837 Philip Browne 20:29:44 00:49:44
19:40 241 Eamonn Hodge 20:30:40 00:50:40
19:40 654 Jean O'Neill 20:30:52 00:50:52
19:41 130 Gordon Douglas 20:28:43 00:47:43
19:42 231 Ruth Lynam 20:27:03 00:45:03
19:42 649 Ken Cawley 20:27:32 00:45:32
19:42 534 Grainne O'Brien 20:33:10 00:51:10
19:43 230 Don Short 20:28:35 00:45:35
19:44 1033 Barry Burke 20:31:20 00:47:20
19:44 615 Damien Cunningham 20:31:22 00:47:22
19:45 1000 Pat Reid 20:25:55 00:40:55
19:45 129 Gareth Little 20:28:28 00:43:28
19:45 49 John Fitzgerald 20:28:55 00:43:55
19:45 628 Louise Mullee 20:29:50 00:44:50
19:45 48 Derek Livingstone 20:29:51 00:44:51
19:46 928 Ken McDonnell 20:24:38 00:38:38
19:46 913 Nigel O'Carroll 20:25:43 00:39:43
19:46 102 Diarmuid O'Colmain 20:27:40 00:41:40
19:46 9 Jim Fitzsimons 20:29:21 00:43:21
19:46 322 Peter Cooney 20:29:49 00:43:49
19:46 352 Aidan Bligh 20:30:04 00:44:04
19:46 143 Paul O'Grady 20:33:49 00:47:49
19:46 321 Ann-Marie Healy 20:37:32 00:51:32
19:47 1123 Maurice Robson 20:25:12 00:38:12
19:47 1026 Anthony O'Reilly 20:27:32 00:40:32
19:47 178 Henny Brandsma 20:28:37 00:41:37
19:47 67 Tommy Galvin 20:29:40 00:42:40
19:48 285 David Putt 20:33:10 00:45:10
19:48 286 Tom McLean 20:33:10 00:45:10
19:49 682 Robin Brady 20:26:16 00:37:16
19:49 366 Susan Seager 20:28:23 00:39:23
19:49 981 Peter Bell 20:28:33 00:39:33
19:49 679 Martin Ryan 20:29:54 00:40:54
19:50 236 Alan Ayling 20:28:18 00:38:18
19:50 601 Aidan Boyle 20:29:57 00:39:57
19:50 330 Paul Keville 20:31:02 00:41:02
19:50 394 Joan Stapleton 20:31:08 00:41:08
19:52 212 Kate Cronin 20:28:01 00:36:01
19:53 719 Ian O'Kane 20:27:13 00:34:13
19:53 980 Kevin Bell 20:31:28 00:38:28
19:54 290 Des Kennedy 20:27:45 00:33:45
19:54 54 Martin Francis 20:28:59 00:34:59
19:54 245 Larry Stapleton 20:32:04 00:38:04
19:55 603 Joe Mooney 20:27:25 00:32:25
19:55 973 Connor Short 20:27:55 00:32:55
19:55 12 Johan Dehanhs.. 20:30:54 00:35:54
19:56 443 Ruairi Short 20:31:08 00:35:08
19:57 802 John Bell 20:31:09 00:34:09
Mick HanneyJul 15 2010, 9:22amI have token prizes for Joe Mooney and Louis Mullee from last nights race. I'll be at subsequent Weds races so you can catch me there, failing that I'll pin them to your race no. in the number box.
Louis MulleeJul 15 2010, 9:51amThanks Mick, I should be there next Wednesday to collect :-)
Dermot MurphyJul 15 2010, 10:13amGreat work by Mick and helpers in organizing last nights race.

We had a range of opinions both for and against the race format before the race - it would be interesting to hear people opinions post race. Would you like to see the race run in this format in future years?

Also - well done to Aidan for getting so close to the time and Joe for a new course record!
Jim FitzharrisJul 15 2010, 10:32amI would like to echo Dermot's thanks to Mick and his team for their good work last night. The course marshalls were much appreciated!

I liked this course - short and sharp with a wide mix of terrain. I would prefer to ascend on the board walk and descend on the rough track but that is just me.

As regards the format of the race, I enjoyed it as it was different. It also offers some organisational advantages etc - e.g. no laptop and quick results. Personally, I did not give it 100% as I would normally try to do because you are pacing yourself to a degree. Also, if using this format again, why not keep the same course for a few outings to let people try to finesse their times - still very difficult to gauge accurately.

There is possibly scope for a longer course but that would mean earlier starting times.


Jim FitzharrisJul 15 2010, 10:57amIf it is of any assiatnace to Kevin O'Riordan for the website, I have pasted the results into Excel and sorted them both by absolute time and handicap time.


Mick HanneyJul 15 2010, 11:02amThanks for your nice words. I was pleasantly surprised how well it worked. We were helped by the weather too. Running it on the exact same route risks having all finishers finishing literally at the same time. If we want to record individual results, as we managed to do last night, this needs lots of people on the finish results sheets and some structuring of the finishers so they finish in lines towards the result writters. We were marshalled well by Eoin in that respect last night.

Tibradden has lots of advantages due to its location, its car park and proximity to a pub (sorry Seamus for not getting this advertised in advance).

The results collation worked well too and we should be able to post results so it counts as a regular imra race for results purposes with % times based on the best time.

No reason why we can't get some top runners out too to try their hand on this kind of race. Its a bit of fun but you can still make a race of it as many people showed last night.

This race, and route, gets my vote.
Jean O'NeillJul 16 2010, 11:12amThoroughly enjoyed the race format, though I was sceptical beforehand as I really liked the Kippure Race. I would agree with having it here again though I understand the logistical problems that would probably arise at the finish. I was 52 secs late which I was very pleased with. Please note that I started at 7.42, not 7.40 (I started at the same time as Ruth Lynam and others). So my shown time should be 2 mins faster, which would affect my percentage time.

Well done on an excellent race!
Jim FitzharrisJul 20 2010, 10:28amThe official results for this race are not yet up. They should be posted as it counts as an "official" IMRA event. As I said before, I have the results in Excel sorted both ways if that is of any use.


Jim FitzharrisJul 20 2010, 10:47amOops! Time to go to SpecSavers!! Mea culpa - I now see that these results are in fact up. Sincere apologies - I misread the site and did not look at the event details.